IF ISRAEL HAS NOTHING TO HIDE WHY DOES IT TRY TO SILENCE THE PRESS AND PREVENT JOURNALISTS FROM ENTERING GAZA???

IF ISRAEL CARRIED OUT CORRECT AUTOPSIES IT MUST HAVE MEDICAL RECORDS.

ISRAEL WILL NOT RELEASE THE MEDICAL RECORDS. WHY?????????????????????

There are to many disturbing stories leaking out of Israel at an alarming rate. This should be properly investigated and another internal investigation by the Israeli military just wont do. Potential criminals should not be allowed to investigate themselves.

I guess this poor deranged journalist was so severely lacking for material that he needed to dig back 19 years to come up with something he could use to make headlines.

Freedom of speech ends when it encroaches on the rights of others. An irresponsible publisher such as this should have their credentials revoked.

This story reminds of many of those who post on this blog. Always spewing nonsensical gibberish of hate, bigotry, violence and murder blaming it on events that happened 60 and 70 years ago or longer or having no factual basis at all-such as this!

This is about as outrageous as the claim by Hamas that the Israelis are corrupting the Palestinian youth by selling them chewing gum laced with aphrodisiacs !!

What a bunch of morons !!!!

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1100104.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/5830080/Hamas-accuses-Israel-of-dumping-aphrodisiac-gum-on-Gaza.html

John A,

Did someone just prevent a journalist from entering Gaza??? Oh!!!! Excuse me-another "old story" --completely unrelated! I see!!

Did you request the autopsy report ? No ??? Oh !!!!

More nonsensical gibberish !!

If you doubt it exists you should make a formal request. After all, you are the all powerful and the privilege and have the right to do as you please and demand anything you desire.

Yes-outrageous stories -at an alarming rate-this one -19 years old !!!!

Investigated and debunked as being terrorist propaganda 19 years ago. But I know, you can't recall anything that happened yesterday so you think it should be investigated again and again until the conclusion you want is obtained.

BWWAAA!!!!!

Filipe like Israel your only objective is to silence the free press and brush allegations against Israels under the carpet.

In the real world if somebody is accused, the accused if innocent will embrace the press and provide evidence of innocence.

Instead Israel wishes to hold back journalists who write anything Israel is uncomfortable with.

The fastest way for Israel to end this scandal would be to provide proof of innocence.

Why wont Israel provide proof of innocence???????????

Any possible murders must be investigated. This has not been investigated by any neutral judicial party.

Again Israel fails to provide proof of innocence and attempts to silence the media with the usual tired and mindless talk of of anti Jewish rhetoric.

Can you imagine concentration camps in Nazi Germany not being investigated because it would be considered anti-Nazi.

Israel should allow the world to see autopsy reports which demonstrate the need to remove Palestinian organs.

If Israel is innocent, what is the challenge to prove it????

Oh look, the Jewish community fails to successfully investigate itself .............again

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8214498.stm

Amazing how the Israeli community always fails to find the guilty Jews. Yet some how they can be 2000 feet high in an F16 and fire missiles at only the guilty Palestinians

Too many despicable stories flooding out of Israel. Something is going terribly wrong in Israeli society.

SO WHERE DID ALL OF THE DONORS COME FROM????????

WHY WILL ISRAEL NOT PROVIDE DETAILS ON THE ORGANS TRAFFICED FROM ISRAEL TO AMERICA??????????

SOMETHING VERY SICK IS BEING HIDDEN HERE????????????

NEW YORK (CNN) - One of the sweeping criminal complaints unveiled Thursday in New Jersey against 44 public officials and others includes a New York man accused of trying to arrange the private sale of a kidney from a donor in Israel.

Levy Izhak Rosenbaum, who lives in Brooklyn and is not a licensed physician or medical professional, faces charges of acting as a human organ broker. He offered to obtain a kidney for an undercover FBI agent and a confidential witness working for authorities, the criminal complaint says. The price was $160,000.

"I am what you call a matchmaker," Rosenbaum is quoted as saying at a July 13 meeting with the two undercover agents.

The undercover FBI agent told Rosenbaum one of her uncles needed a kidney because he had been on dialysis for two years and on a transplant list at a Philadelphia hospital, the complaint says. The first meeting took place at Rosenbaum's home on February 18, 2008, three days after the confidential witness contacted Rosenbaum by telephone, the document says.

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At that meeting, the complaint alleges, Rosenbaum said he could obtain a kidney for $150,000. He later raised the price to $160,000.

"I'm doing this a long time," the complaint says Rosenbaum told the two agents. He then added: "Let me explain to you one thing. It's illegal to buy or sell organs. ... So you cannot buy it. What you do is, you're giving a compensation for the time."

At their last meeting, on July 13, Rosenbaum said he had been arranging kidney sales for 10 years, the complaint says. Asked how many transplants he had brokered, Rosenbaum is said to have responded, "Quite a lot. ... Quite a lot."

Rosenbaum also told the agents he had brokered a transplant two weeks before their meeting, the document says.

According to the complaint, the undercover FBI agent called a person who was the recipient of a kidney brokered by Rosenbaum, who had provided the telephone number as a reference. The person, a New Jersey-area resident identified in the complaint as Recipient 2, had paid cash for the kidney a little more than a year before the February 2009 call. The surgery was performed at a hospital outside the New Jersey area.

Asked about the donor's motive, the kidney recipient replied, "I guess he needed the money," according to the complaint.

All of the donors "come from Israel," Rosenbaum is alleged to have said.

The price had gone up to $160,000, he said, because "it's hard to get people," noting that Israel had passed laws prohibiting the sale of human organs, the complaint states.

The agents had already paid $10,000 and were told to bring another $70,000 at a meeting scheduled for this week. "I prefer you do it with cash," the complaint quotes Rosenbaum as saying.

The remaining $80,000 would be due "when I get the donor in the hospital, check them out," the complaint

John A

According to the (so-called) Swedish newspaper, they have no proof that the story from 1992 is true, even the family acknowledged this when asked in the follow-up article by two journalists.

you are the only one who believes all and everything your arab brothers say

like the Jenin massacre where allegedly over 500 were killed-only the pals themselves corrected that number later to 56, mostly armed

the well poisoning arafat's young wife described to hillary clinton

the fact that naked israeli women soldiers approach arabs in gaza and when the young gazan men approach, they are shot by other israeli soldiers waiting hidden

the distribution of poisoned sweets from the air over gaza to kill as many children as possible

all of these stoties were spread by your friends, none is true

so you believe either all stories or you know the lies of your friends

do you professor/mohammed/John A?

John A

you know nothing about israeli society

at least israeli society does not teach their children to become suicide bombers

your society does (and this can be proven, contrary to your lies)

of course the swedish government does not condem anything against jews

they only apologize to yemen when mohammed cartoons are published in their "free' press

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

John A,

Blurring Israelis and Jews again and then you wonder why anti-zionism is viewed as anti-semitism!

Israeli society is not perfect, but for some reason many of you seem to expect the impossible and so invent the unbelievable.

Why should Israel have to prove fantastic claims when you do not believe the proof negating other accusations?

The Swedish journalists who need to renew their journalism cards understand the situation fully and will wait as long as it takes.

The fact that they need the cards to report from Gaza is irrelevent to the whole issue and just included in this piece in order to further complicate the story.
They can enter Gaza from Egypt if necessary.

In Israeli hospitals it is not unusual to find wounded terrorists lying in hospital next to the wounded victims they tried to murder, receiving equal medical care.

If the Palestinian was seen being taken away mortally wounded, it is most likely that he received medical attention, even surgery to save his life and therefore bore the scars resulting from such intervention.

There is no Libya blog? I think of Jack the Ripper. He killed less people and was infamous down through history. No kiddies, and many less bodies. Now days, he seems almost silly compared to the present day mass killers. And we embrace them? I just can't even comprehend the thought. Really. It is like black and white to me. A separate universe. Most people can't go there. I don't even want to go there. But it is totally shocking. How do things like this exist? I guess Hitler generation people wondered too. That was a shocking event also but in the past, that some said didn't happen anyway. I wasn't there and have no idea, but if it did, just shocking. Chill bumps. How do such people get to walk away?

If you have two kidneys and are dirt poor and can sell one, why not? That is why countries need modern industry. Raking the dirt or raising goats won't do it. Backwards is backwards. The states are very different, the UNITED states, like the mid east. The mid east is older though. People better learn to unite and move ahead maybe, and you can't exclude someone – like Israel. Imagine us excluding a state. Any state.

To John A.

What a load of rubbish you write!!!

The Swedish newspaper has admitted there is NO proof of these accusations.

How can Israel "provide proof of innocence" about something that didnt happen?

Do you also demand that we investigate and prove our innocence of
1) 9/11 terrorist attacks
2) murdering JFK
3) developing and spreading swine flu
4) causing the tsunami
5) causing the global financial crisis

We have been blamed for all of the above.

There is nothing (here we go again!) Anti Semitic propaganda about the article. This could be a hideous crime that needs to be investigated and resolved ASAP without any further manipulation on Israel's side. They have nothing to hide, or do they??...So dig in, exhume the bodies, clear the air...and let it rest.

Hope, John A,

Yes– investigate right away !!!!! An unsubstantiated story which was investigated and debunked 18 years ago!!!

You guys are really on top of it !!!!

John A,

Please explain how you think that Israel is hiding something??

Has someone in Israel denied to provide medical records which you think should be provided? Who ?? Where? When ?

Nothing from posted articles appears have occurred in Israel.

The article never mentions anything about organs being trafficked from Israel. It only mentions that the donors "come from Israel". Not that the organs are harvested in Israel and transported to the US !

You are really a clueless wonder!

It really appears that your good old USA is the one tied up in this mess. All of the allegations seem to be coming from within NY and NJ-- what does Israel have to with this ?? It also appears that the transplant operations were done in the US because it was against the law for this occur in Israel.

So once again-what does Israel have to do with this??

You should really get your facts straight before you start in on your whining and crying.

John A,

Only in your world is it expected for someone to prove their innocence when being accused of something.

That my be how it works where you live. But in the modern world and the court of law, the burden of proof is on the accuser.

Sorry that you just don't seem to grasp that concept!

Enough of your whining and crying about "prove you are innocent" !!!

What a joke!!

Avi you say, "How can Israel “provide proof of innocence” about something that didn't happen"?

Answer: The same way all innocent people prove they are innocent. ie give a detailed account of what they have been doing. It's not rocket science. And Avi has no proof, how can you say it didn't happen?

America said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. This was not true but all Zionists were delighted to see Iraq bombed.

When a serious claim is made, such as Israel harvesting Palestinian organs it should be investigated. If it is a false claim, fine we can move on.

The truly disturbing issue is there has never been an investigation. We do know organs have been smuggled into America from Israel. We don't know who were the donors of the organs. Therefore we do know an illegal organ trade has flourished in Israel for the last decades and we have a suspicion from a Swedish journalist that this illegal organ trade has been supported by the Israeli army, who illegally took body organs from Palestinians.

This is enough for a proper investigation. It is entirely improper for Israel to claim that everything is fine and nothing happened. We already know Israelis have been illegally supplying body organs to the medical market. They must demonstrate where those organs have come from. Israel has been proven to participate in a crime, now the depth of the crime must be investigated.

Anybody who claims not to understand such a simple process of law is obviously trying to avoid law and order.

Israel must have medical documentation which will indicate if autopsies have been managed correctly. It must be possible to check the bodies of the dead and discover if their organs are missing. It must be possible for Israeli hospitals to trace the organs that have been smuggled from Israel and into the US. If Israel can not do these simple tasks then Israel is hiding something.

Being open and transparent is never difficult for legitimate groups. Lets see if Israel can be open or transparent on this occasion. Israels usual response to any investigation is to refuse cooperation with international organizations. They investigate themselves and claim to the world that they are wonderful people. But the horror stories keep leaking out of Israel. Again something is terribly wrong in Israels society and only the guilty try to suppress discussion and investigation.

John A,

You said-– "SO WHERE DID ALL OF THE DONORS COME FROM????????

WHY WILL ISRAEL NOT PROVIDE DETAILS ON THE ORGANS TRAFFICED FROM ISRAEL TO AMERICA??????????

SOMETHING VERY SICK IS BEING HIDDEN HERE????????????

*********************************************************************

ANSWER--- Israel has nothing to do with it !!!! It is a figment of your imagination!!! Simply a wild a$$ creation of your own feeble little mind!

There are no organs trafficked from Israel! Hmmm!!!! Where did you get that from???

PROOF TO FOLLOW --

"Levy Izhak Rosenbaum described himself to an uncover FBI agent and a cooperating witness as a "matchmaker" who would arrange to hire a donor in Israel to come to the United States to donate a kidney in exchange for a $10,000 fee, according to a complaint filed by the U.S. Attorney. "

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/pol/1294586426.html

Looks like this a problem for your US government to resolve !!!! You should address your belligerent rantings to them !!!

Great job of propaganda dissemination though!!! Too bad you only make yourself out to be a fool!

Filipe University Rector writes: at least israeli society does not teach their children to become suicide bombers
---------------------------------------------

Israel ethnically cleanses an unarmed civilian Palestinian population. Result: A minority of Palestinians decide if they are going down, they will take their suppressors down with them. Hence they give up their lives and hope to take a few Zionists with them.

Nazis decide to ethnically cleanse the Jewish population. Result: The Jewish population line up to be slain and waits for the rest of the world to sacrifice their men in battle, so that they can be saved by the international community.

We all have to make choices in life. One thing is for sure though. When Filipe and G wake up to their corn flakes, they are blissfully unaware what actions they would take if they were living under occupation and an occupying army threatens to remove them from their homes, force them into refugee camps and bomb them with F16s.

On 9/11 when passengers knew their flight was high jacked, they fought with the high jackers and all went down together. America claimed those flight passengers were heroes.

In the last decades when Palestinians have realized their lives have been high jacked by the Israeli state they have been left with no future and in sub human conditions, some fight with the Israeli high jackers with the thought of if you are going to bring me down then we all go down together.

Both the passengers in 9/11 and the Palestinians who have had their country high jacked are responding with the same psychology. ie I'm not going to wait for you to kill me.

What came first, the high jack of Palestine or the high jacks in 9/11?

No country or person has ever let another group high jacks their lives without resistance. Israel continues to high jack Palestinian lives with Israels illegal expansion of settlements.

The middle east crisis started when western powers decided to allow Jewish immigrants to flood into other peoples countries. Western powers totally change the demographics of the Middle East and brought chaos and resistance to the world. Israel did not wait for the British mandate to provide a reasonable allocation of land to both Palestinians and Jews. Instead Israel started the middle east terrorism with its armed gang called the Ingrun. They attacked the British who freed them from concentration camps in world war 2, they attacked the Palestinians and drove them from their homes. Now we have a mess in Palestine. This mess has been managed by the Israeli forces who are backed with supreme American fire power. But some how America and Israel think they can act with ruthless discrimination against Arabic states and that the Arabic people will brutalized in silence.

Israels apartheid state and expansionist policies are the cause of tension with Muslim communities. Americas supports this brutalization and has found terrorism in reply.

Why did America lie about weapons of mass destruction. This is just another example of the cycle of propaganda used to create support for an attack on Arabic communities. Israel is delighted to be Americas puppet in the middle east as they benefit from 3 billion dollars aid every year and they are allowed to freely brutalize Palestinians and expand their country with illegal settlements.

Hope

clear the air?

First let's investigate the antisemitic utterances by Abbas in his PhD thjesis, the kidnapping of Gilead Shalt, the murder by Hizbullah of trhe kidnapped soldiers (twice) right after their capture, the massacre of the pregnant mother and her four daughters by hamas (they admitted it), the disco bombing in Tel aviv, the Achile Laure murder of the American tourist in a wheelchair, the murder of the US ambassador to Sudan on the orders of arafat, the kidnapping, torture and murder of two US officers in Lebanon, ........

I am sure neither Hamas nor Hizbullah have anything to hide and will readily agree to investigations.

You se, the difference is that all of the above happened, the bodysnatching, which is a blood libel like the killing of christian children in order to bake unleavened bread with their blood, did not!

miriam,

A certified Dr. of any hospital (all over the world) is sworn to treat and SAVE lives regardless of race ethnicity color religion etc...

On the other hand, A Coroner..is a Public Official who's job is to (open deceased bodies) investigate the cause of death. He is not sworn to save anyone.

Now, as an Intellect (you are one) taking into consideration the mortality rate of Palestinians...is what? about 20 x more then Jews in Israel, AND seems to share the same genetic make up, (organs compatibility)..Who is going to stop a Coroner from NOT snatching an organ (or two!) from a deceased Palestinian body..Conscious?? Doubt it. Good way to cash in some $$$ If you ask me.

"All of the donors "come from Israel," Rosenbaum is alleged to have said.."
http://www.edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/23/nj.corruption.kidney/index.html

"Arabs and Jews are essentially a single population…”
http://bhascience.blogspot.com/2009/01/shared-genetic-heritage-of-jews-and.html

This should not be about (lets use) the Anti Semitic excuse. This is about raising questions & doubts about Israel's mistreatment of the Palestinian People.

The family of Ghanem have said that they cannot confirm the Swedish allegations and have no evidence supporting them. They never made any such claims to any foreign journalist and believe that the Swede made up his own story based on outsiders' claims.
They are now being pressured into demanding an inquiry.

I'm sure the family would prefer to be left alone rather than have to be taken back 17 years to a difficult period in their lives for the sake of the malicious lies of anti-zionist/Israel hate incitement.

'Hamas executing its rivals in Gaza'

Two Israeli television stations on Monday night broadcast a video showing Hamas forces "executing" Gaza rebels linked to al-Qaida during an armed confrontation earlier this month.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1251145107235&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Did Hamas harvest their organs ???

The Swedish newspaper should demand a full investigation !!!!

I THINK ISREAL DOING THE PALESTIAN WRONG ON GLOBAL LEVEL AND TOO MANY INJUSTICS AND WHY ISREAL HAVE BUILD ON LAND THAT DISPUTED GLOBAL BUT ISREAL DID BECAUSE THE UNITED STATE AND SOME OTHER BACK ISREAL .

Hope

you are hopeless, as the following joke shows:

"Now, as an Intellect (you are one) taking into consideration the mortality rate of Palestinians…is what? about 20 x more then Jews in Israel, AND seems to share the same genetic make up, (organs compatibility)."

Mario,

If Israel cannot build on disputed land then nobody else can either, including Arabs.

Hope,

Nothing in your posted article claims that organs are harvested in Israel and shipped to NJ !!!! They would be smelling pretty ripe by the time they reached their destination !!! Did they go "UPS Next Day" or "FedX" ??? What an idiot !!!

Nor does anything in your posted article indicate that any of these donors are Palestinians. The Rabbi involved couldn't get anything for a kidney from a Palestinian !!! Wake up!!!

Did you simply make this up in your feeble little mind??? John A did the same thing. It's amazing how such feeble minds make the same ignorant assumptions !

The donors are live, you idiot- they're doing this for $$$$$ !!!!!

http://www.app.com/article/20090726/NEWS/907260350/1070/NEWS02

The arrest of a Brooklyn man last Thursday for allegedly agreeing to broker the sale of a kidney for $160,000 has cast a spotlight on an international scandal even darker and more pervasive than the culture of political corruption in New Jersey.

Levy Izhak Rosenbaum described himself to an uncover FBI agent and a cooperating witness as a "matchmaker" who would arrange to hire a donor in Israel to come to the United States to donate a kidney in exchange for a $10,000 fee, according to a complaint filed by the U.S. Attorney

You need to focus your rhetorical rants, whining and crying to the US-this is where the violation of law is said to have occurred. Israel has nothing to with it!

You should really read the details of the subject before you start spouting off-- you might not look so foolish and ignorant.

As well-- little miss Hopeless know it all-- a Coroner is in fact a licensed medical Doctor-- so the same oath applies to him as any other doctor-- his employment status changes nothing!!! What an idiot!

Once again-– you make a feeble attempt to create a fairytale simply void of any truth or factual basis !

Too bad for you people can actually read the articles for themselves and know what is really printed--no one needs to rely on your fairy tales of hatred and deception.

I think that Israel should used of its resources to hit back against Sweden regarding the HARVESTING Article....

=Dennis Junior=

This debate is about a suspicion that the Israeli regime has been using Palestinian body parts in an illegal supply to Americas medical industry. Its a very sick and disturbing thought and there is already evidence of an illegal organ trade in Israel. Just some days ago American police arrested Israelis for the illegal trade of human body parts. This news comes from Israels only Allie in the world and it is factual.

We do no need to worry about the rise of anti Semitic emotions. What we need to worry about is the rise of Jewish crime. Why are so many ghastly stories leaking out of Israeli society?? Israeli society has become an ethical free zone. Each time Israels ethics are questioned Western Governments try to equate this to anti Semitic attitudes. In turn this has made Israel unquestionable. In turn this has allowed bad people in Jewish society to get away with murder.

If any readers of the CNN blog care to visit other blog sites they will find that the overwhelming public opinion around the world is that the Palestinians have been treated with violent discrimination by Israel. Israel is the biggest terrorist in the world. The frustrating question is, why do western politicians fail to represent the overwhelming majority of the people they represent. Why do Western politicians brush allegations against Israel under the carpet as quickly as possible.

If the illegal organ trade was sourced to Iran, this story would be on the front pages of all media for weeks. Because this story comes from the ethical free zone of Israel, Western politicians ignore it and attempt to brush it out of public view as quickly as possible.

Lets see some democracy from our democracies. Most people are sick and tired of Israels abuse of Palestinians. Its time the western governments recognized this and took action to prevent Israel from acting illegally and ignoring UN resolutions.

By dismissing the very real problems in Israeli society, the west simply pushes down the lid on a pressure cooker. The problem does not really go away, it only gets worse. At some point the lid will explode and this will be the worst outcome for the Israeli community. So the west would be wise to take action against Israel now, before action become uncontrollable.

Filipe–"Nothing in your posted article claims that organs are harvested in Israel and shipped to NJ !!!! They would be smelling pretty ripe by the time they reached their destination !!! Did they go “UPS Next Day” or “FedX” ??? What an idiot !!!"

Thanks for failing to poke holes in my post :)

"you can store a kidney for up to 24 hours.."
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/content/interviews/interview/873/
A Journey from Tel Aviv, to New Jersey is Aprox.15 hours plan ride (British Airways). Ample of time to keep organs cool and alive!

Levy-Izhak Rosenbaum, "is buying organs from vulnerable people from Israel for $10,000 and selling them to desperate patients in the U.S. for as much as $160,000."
He is a Rabbi. A Jew. And a Thug!..(most likely with dual citizenship). Well, that makes him Israel's Responsibility AS WELL. A shining holy piece of shit.

More, "Organ donors can be living or deceased.."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_transplant
Organ donors can be DECEASED as well.

Also, "Organs that can be transplanted are the heart, kidneys, liver, lungs, pancreas, penis and intestine".....

Filipe the jigsaw is not so hard to put together.

1.Israelis are illegally trading human body parts,

2.Israeli army performing questionable autopsies,

3. Palestinians claim relatives organs taken by Israeli army,

4. American medics supplied with untraceable organs.

Even G could connect these dots. And the very real suspicions need investigation.

Here is another puzzle for you Filipe:1,2,3,4,? Guess the next number or do you need a CNN journalist to explain the sequence for you?

As always you have no understanding for the subject matter and because you don’t understand you think other people are dumb. Filipe you define ignorance like nobody else can. We can all think of an organ that you desperately need.

Filipe– "The Rabbi involved couldn’t get anything for a kidney from a Palestinian !!! Wake up!!!"

You are soo mature Filipe!. I'm afraid to ask which part of your anatomy is functioning as your brains today. Dude, jews are known do ANYTHING to make $$$. Legally $ illegally! Whether the organs came from Palestinians (most cost effective), or Sri Lankans, don't matter one way or another..They'll sniff the $$'s wherever they'll find it.

Surely you heard of Bernard Madoff. A wealthy gentleman. A Jew. A thug. Who admitted defrauding thousands of investors billions of dollars. He was convicted of operating the largest investor fraud ever committed by a single person, and was sentenced to 150 years in prison. Did he care about the thousands he ruined financially?? And now, the special Rabbi (a holly thug!). Most likely is operating some underground dirty organ snatching business, courtesy of dead Palestinian bodies...Israel should investigate and stop shedding it's Crocodile tears.."Bwaaaaa!!, Sweden is Anti-Semitic!". Grow up, wipe those faked tears, use a handkerchief. Just make sure it is not stolen.

University rector–"Hope you are hopeless, as the following joke shows: Now, as an Intellect (you are one) taking into consideration the mortality rate of Palestinians…is what? about 20 x more then Jews in Israel, AND seems to share the same genetic make up, (organs compatibility).”

rector–It's hard to mix humor with your level of stupidity...

Again, Palestinian mortality is HIGHER then Israelis.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

Share genetics of Jews and Palestinians.
http://bhascience.blogspot.com/2009/01/shared-genetic-heritage-of-jews-and.html

It seems ironic how one has to repeat the same thing (customizing it) to accommodate different levels of absorbent.

From the surrounding Arab countries. As to the background of Palestinians, we may occasionally hear that they have always been one nation and that Jerusalem has always been their capital.

History does not, however, support these ideas. If we look at the time after 70 A.D. when Jerusalem and its temple were destroyed and the Jews were dispersed, we can see that there was no Palestinian state, a state that would have had its own rulers, its own army, its own currency, its own language, recognizable borders, and other features signifying national identity. These important features were completely missing.

Instead, history teaches that present-day Palestinians are Arabs who came from surrounding states. They are generally the descendants of Ishmael, who was the son of Abraham and to whom rightfully belongs a blessing equal to that of his brother Isaac – a blessing which will probably be restored in the millennial kingdom (Isa 19:24 25: In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the middle of the land: Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel my inheritance.).

These people did not represent one nationality but several: Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iraq, etc. They arrived from neighboring Arab states or (before the year 1917) from the former Turkish Ottoman region, which until a hundred years ago still had possession of most of the Arab states. They could not, at that time, have had any kind of Palestinian identity, neither did the neighboring Arab states speak about anything like that in those times; this came a lot later.

In addition, what led people to move away from the surrounding areas to the present land of Israel was the fact that conditions were much better there. Consequences of the migration of the Jews were an increase in wages and the standard of living, and this tempted them to move away from the surrounding areas. The people mostly migrated to those areas where the standard of living had increased the most.

http://koti.phnet.fi/elohim/Lastdays9

John A and the Hope !

Take your bigoted racially perverse rants somewhere else.

By the way John-no one needs to think you are dumb !

So your US medical system is being complicit with a Jew from Brooklyn in harvesting and selling organs!!

So if these organs are being flown from Israel to the US via BA- then there certainly will be US customs documents to show this. So what is all the mystery about ??? Should be a slam dunk case!

Right-– that's hardly what the FBI indictment says !

Obviously you guys can't read or comprehend !

Give it break-your lies can't dispel what is public knowledge in this this case!

Please get someone to assist you in reading the following details on the subject-you seem to be having a great deal of difficulty with this task--

http://www.app.com/article/20090726/NEWS/907260350/1070/NEWS02

Levy Izhak Rosenbaum described himself to an uncover FBI agent and a cooperating witness as a “matchmaker” who would arrange to hire a donor in Israel to come to the United States to donate a kidney in exchange for a $10,000 fee, according to a complaint filed by the U.S. Attorney.

What part of this don't you understand??

This is a US problem on US soil being prosecuted by the US government in the US court system !!!

telson writes: If we look at the time after 70 A.D. when Jerusalem and its temple were destroyed and the Jews were dispersed
--------------------------------–

telson the story of Jews being dispersed only appears in Jewish religious texts. This is not fact. Just as God creating the world in seven days is not fact. There is absolutely no historical evidence that the Jews were dispersed or that any other country received them. You are free to believe your religion, but you are not free to claim myths and legend are historical fact.

Nice try to distract the blog though. We are talking about Israelis making money through selling body parts. This is a fact and your mythical religious texts are not.

HOPE

Der Stuermer could not have said it any better

And as for calling Maddoff a Jew (which he is) and giving examples of Jewish criminals, let's consider the following (if you understand it, if not, no big harm done):

When Paul Newman died, they said how great he was but they failed to mention he considered himself Jewish (born half-Jewish).

When Helen Suzman, who helped Nelson Mandela througout his career, died recently, they said how great she was, but they failed to mention she was Jewish.

On the other side of the equation, when Ivan Boesky or Andrew Fastow or Bernie Madoff committed fraud, almost every article mentioned they were Jewish.

However, when Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling, Martha Stewart, Randy Cunningham, Gov. Edwards, Conrad Black, Senator Keating, Gov Ryan, and Gov Blagojevich messed up; no one reported what religion or denomination they were, because they were not Jewish.

John A and Hope,

Despite all your denials you are definite anti-semites.

You are obssessed with the activities of Jews, dwelling especially on criminals, the likes of which exist in every society.

You believe every unfounded accusation directed against Israel, the collective Jew.

You falsely assume that any crime that is reportedly committed in Israel, whether proven or not, could not possibly be committed in any other state, thereby holding Israel to double standards.

It so happens that Israel is a free democracy that allows freedom of expression and naturally critics of the state from within will jump on stories, whether true or not, to find fault with the society in which they live. It is because of this same freedom of expression that outsiders can get away with reporting the same rumours, often maliciously with an obvious anti-semitic intention, but knowing the repurcussions will affect them minimally but damage Israel hugely.

You expect Jews and Israel to behave at a level not expected or attained by any other people or nation. It would be great if every Jew could be perfect, better still, every human being, but at present that is not so. This does not give you the right to single out Jews and Israel for perpetual and usually mistaken criticism.

telson–With all due respect, Biblical rattling serves no one, and has no scientific logic. Your custom-built jewish website, written by (what else) a jew, is an advertisement..A selling tool targeting Religious Jews, and Fundamental Christians, who interpret supernatural stories as REAL events.

I pulled few sentences for the sake of pure entertainment;

"However, according to the Bible, this same area and the Middle East will also play an important role in the events of the last days.."
"Current events are connected to prophecies written centuries ago that will surely be fulfilled."
"It (Jerusalem) will become a ‘cup of trembling’ and ‘a burdensome stone’ for all the nations who are gathered against it: – (Zec 12:1-3).."

Main stage in the last days? Prophecies? Fulfilled? Cup of Trembling? Burdensome Stone?..Sounds like a Harry Potter Fiction to me..

and let's not forget to investigate jewish participation in the Kennedy assassinations, the Mossad's involvement in the destruction of the WTC and, last but not least, the Jewish habit of killing Christian children in order to bake unleavened bread with their blood for Passover

I am honestly astonished as how our American government has failed to realize alot of the things that are going on around us. Especially in other countries until its too late.Netheless what we do seem to pursue or accuse others of doing we never have any proof or evidence. Among everyone else I am curious to know if the organs were harvested or not. I hope to find out later on in the news.

Due to many complications in the israeli government, i believe they knew of the activities the amy were doing. Its your army how do you not know what your army is doin on your homefield? These issues are so equivalent to many problems we have been having on the homeland. With the prisoners from Iraq and the cruelty they produce but not to this extent, Organs, wow! We must be aware of these issues.

university rector August 27th, 2009 1922 GMT

and let’s not forget to investigate jewish participation in the Kennedy assassinations ..............................etc
--------------------------------
University Rector please be reminded that we are only interested in facts.

Do you deny the fact that Israelis have been caught in an illegal & despicable trade of human body parts????

Hope,

And Palestinian mortality rates are LOWER that those of the rest of the Arab world.

Deonte Lang,

Everyone in Israel including the government knows that these accusations are totally fabricated.

The problem is not Israel but rather the rapid anti-semites of this world who invent such stories.

John A,

You should really go back and read some authentic history books on the subject you claim to be so schooled in. I've never read a Jewish text in my life even I know that the Jews were expelled from the Land of Israel by the Romans in 70AD and the Romans destroyed the Temple Mount .

Your denial of well known and accepted historical fact only speaks for your bigotry and racially motivated hate for anything Jewish.

Sorry- just because you deny it doesn't mean it isn't true !

After all you still deny that you live on land the white European settlers stole from the Native Americans and the Mexicans. --The entire world is ware that that is a fact !

miriam–

Yes, that is correct...Palestinians are dying at a higher (faster) rate then the Israelis, or anywhere else in the Arab world. They are being collectively KILLING by the Israelis. Is this news?

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

miriam–"Despite all your denials you are definite anti-Semites."

I'd like to refer to myself as;

Anti-Occupation
Anti-Gaza siege
Anti-Check points
Anti-Palestinian home demolishes
Anti-Jewish Settlements on Palestinian land
Anti-Palestinian slaughtering
Anti-Palestinian organ snatching
Anti-Falafel stealing

Anti Semite? Me?..don't think so. I am a Semite. 100% Semite. More then the (1%-0% Semites?) Slavic people occupying modern 60 year old Israel! Go figure..Its a complicated world we live in. Have a good weekend. Name labeling gets no one anywhere. Take responsibly of your criminal actions. 60 years of age is not so grown up..Still, try and be mature for a change!

Oups..sorry, I meant "KILLED" not "KILLING"..long week tired..

John A

"Do you deny the fact that Israelis have been caught in an illegal & despicable trade of human body parts????"

yes I deny it

Deonte Lang,

you know more than the Swedish journalist who published the story?

he specifically said that there is no proof

but you seem to know more, you have a direct line to God?

Hope,

As you so concisely stated above, your nothing but and endless list of whining and complaining issue ladened cry baby who can't stand the fact that someone other than an Arab lives in and owns the land of Israel.

But that's OK-- it's perfectly fine for you to occupy the land you and your white European ancestors stole from the Native Americans and the Mexicans.

Get over it !

Sorry about your luck. But when you wake up tomorrow and every other tomorrow-you'll find out you have same list of issues to complain about-because they'll never go away. They will only accumulate as time goes on!

There will always and forever be more s**t for you to complain about–the list will never get any shorter than it is today !

Have a nice day :) !

so Hope, according to you there is proof that there was "organ snatching"?

according to you, a Jew is not allowed to buy land anywhere, but only where you allow him to?

According to you, let the Jews be murdered by terrorists, because checkpoints are bad and if a few Jews get killed because there are no more checkpoints, you don't really acre?

According to you, let Hmas in Gaza get more rockets, more explosives, more guns, because the siege has to be lifted, who cares if Shalit does not come home or rockets rain again on Israel?

According to you Jews slaughter Palestinians, like Erikat's 500 Jenin dead which turned out to be a blatant lie, but who cares about the truth?

According to you Jews are not entitled to eat falafel, because it was stolen from the Arabs?

Name labeling gets you nowhere? It is you who slander,.lie, falsify history and label Jews as criminals.

Filipe according to Roman historical records a Jewish temple was destroyed in 70AD after rebellion in Jerusalem, which was orchestrated by the Jewish community living there.

After the rebellion there are no Roman records of any exile. There are also no records of any other civilization accepting the Jewish exiles at this time. Again the only record of an exile is in ancient Jewish religious texts. Religious texts are not historical fact.

University Rector denies that Jews have been dealing in human body parts. But they have and this has already become a proven fact in the USA.

Hope,

You are quite unbelievable.

Your source is totally unreliable and biased.

There is no "collective" killing of Palestinians by Israel.

In 2007, Palestinian child mortality rates were lower than Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia and that infant mortality is lower than these countries too, and falling annually.

And life expectancy of Palestinians is higher than that of surrounding Arab countries.

You know what anti-semitism is and if you have a problem with the term then how about Judeophobia, derived from the word Judea, the historical Jewish province including Jerusalem.

John A,

Roman records were really going to admit to their brutal treatment of the Jews.
Of course they would blame the reason for their attacks on the victim. Times don't change!
It's not a surprise that Roman records would not follow up the fate of the Jews they exiled.

However Rome has art and archeological evidence depicting exactly what happened.

Just because Jewish texts are written by Jews it does not make them unreliable or inaccurate.

John A,

Sorry, but i am not aware of any Jewish religious text that I have ever read in my entire life. So your assumption that I learned of Jewish exile from the land of Israel came from an ancient Jewish religious text is completely false-as is 99.9% of the nonsense that you post!

Just because you deny it-doesn't make it fact !!!

No one cares if you believe it or not- it's historical fact!

And yes-let your US legal system sort out the organ harvesting scheme that the Jew from Brooklyn orchestrated with the NY and NJ medical community-which happened entirely on US soil !

The "organ snatching" you refer to is a completely different subject which has been proven no where because there is no proof.

If there is -produce it ! Otherwise pi$$ off with your lies and fariytales!!

Miriam Judea existed for a short period and over 2000 years ago. The civilization of Judea is an ancient an extinct culture. This is historical fact, it is not anti Semitic.

The culture of modern Israel does not trace back to ancient times. After world war two, Jewish leaders for the first time encouraged conversion, so that they could find citizens to populate Palestine.

The citizens which converted to Judaism were largely from Eastern Europe and particularly from Russia. Russians were trying to escape the Soviet Union and the creation of Israel was their green card to escape. Hence the Jews of modern Israel have as much of a cultural connection with ancient Judea as Tiger Woods, Ghandi or myself. ie most Jewish immigrants have no connection at all. This is not anti Semitic, it is fact.

You claim every fact which is not compatible with your own ideology is anti Semitic. You must try to evolve beyond such medieval thinking. If facts do not meet with your approval, the bringer of fact is not a witch, heretic or anti Semitic.

Returning to the theme of this blog, which Miriam would prefer we don’t, Israelis have been caught trading body parts in the USA. It is morally responsible to investigate this alongside claims that Palestinians have made about their children’s organs being stolen by the Israeli army.

No investigation implies guilt, but to be morally responsible this matter should be investigated. I’m sure the New Jersey police were at some point accused of being anti Semitic, as their investigations focused on the Jewish community. But they found these Jews were breaking the law, so what is anti Semitic about pursuing law and order and justice????

Ohh?!..Which part does not meet your approval? A site that is not published by a zionist gang, should be classified as unreliable? Wonderful!.

Dropping bombs on Palestinian civilians/children is collective killings..

–"Judeophobia"??

Good one! how about Arab-phobia. A 60 year résumé (the defending champions against children throwing stones) is quite an accomplishment! Bravo :)

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

John A,

It's simply amazing the degree to which you will go to in an attempt to convince others that the Israelites are extinct and therefore the Arab immigrants have any and all rights to the land of Israel!

You should develop your theory in detail and submit it to the major historical and scientific societies throughout the world and see if any will do more than wipe their collective – with it !

Boo hoo hoo !! The Jews live in Israel and stole my land and my falafel. Boo hoo hoo!!

Sorry for your luck!

August 30th, 2009 923 GMT
Miriam writes:
Roman records were really going to admit to their brutal treatment of the Jews.
Of course they would blame the reason for their attacks on the victim. Times don’t change!
It’s not a surprise that Roman records would not follow up the fate of the Jews they exiled.
-------------------------------–

Miriam the Romans were not democratic or politically correct. They did not falsify records of slaughter incase the world community would disapprove. The Romans kept the most comprehensive records of their time. They never recorded a Jewish exile from Judea because it never happened.

Do you really believe the Romans would delight in their record of feeding Christians to the lions, but be embarrassed about telling the world of a forced Jewish exile. Miriam you have exposed your great stupidity which now equals Filipe's.

The Romans made no record of a Jewish exile simply because it didn't happen. After all the silly counter claims you have made, you still cant support the Jewish exile myth with a single grain of proof.

Again this blog is about a possible connection between the Israeli citizens who were trading body parts in the USA and the Palestinian claims that their children have had organs removed by the Israeli army. Why are you terrified to examine the possible link???

John A,

Roman records do not appear to mention Jesus.
Does that mean he did not exist?

Anyway, there are plenty of Roman and Greek historians, geographers and philosophers who wrote about Jews in Judea and in exile.
The most comprehensive and accurate Roman record of the time was written by Josephus who, having grown up in Judea, became a Roman citizen.

Another undisputable piece of evidence is the Arch of Titus, showing the Jews and Holy vessels from the Temple being carried off to Rome.

It is rediculous for someone to discount any piece of literature authored by a Jew. There's a lot out there.

No one has claimed with any proof that a dead body of a Palestinian has had any organ removed unknowingly.

The suspected case in the US involves live donors travelling to the US to donate organs.

There is no link to examine.

Filipe writes:
You should develop your theory in detail and submit it to the major historical and scientific societies throughout the world and see if any will do more than wipe their collective – with it !
-------------------------------–
Filipe I don't need to as this has already been done. All historians who base their findings on science and archeology have already demonstrated that the Romans never exiled any people from any part of their empire. Oh wise Filipe, why would Romans exile their slave labour. The exile story remains confined to Jewish texts and is nothing more than folk law.

If you could find one historian who does not base his findings on Zionist beliefs you would tell me about it. The fact remains that the Jews were never exiled and the Palestinians are in fact the direct descendants of the short live Judea biblical period.

The story of Israel is fraudulent and without historical fact. The story of Israel is the biggest scam of our time. An even bigger scam than your Zionist mate Bernie Madoff who scamed the stock market.

Israel has not got away with it and never will. Palestinians cling onto their land, resist the occupiers and will one day be free. Sorry Filipe but your baseless account of Jewish history will one day implode along with the artificial state of Israel.

John A,

So where is your proof of the illegal organ harvesting you keep whinging and crying about??

I don't read of any claims of proof anywhere- only wild a$$ed allegations and repeated whining from you!

After all it's been 19 years since the alleged incident took place and there's yet to be any proof established-what does that tell you ??

Are you still confused??

Israel exists–get over it! Arabs are migrant shepherds from Arabia. Palestine is the land east of the River Jordan.

Miriam writes:
Roman records do not appear to mention Jesus.
-------------------------------–Roman records do mention Jesus.

Filipe the organ harvest should be investigated, then proof of innocence will be declared or denied.

John A,

What don't you understand ??

It’s been 19 years since the alleged incident took place and there’s yet to be any proof established—what does that tell you ??

Are you still confused??

19 years and no proof of any wrongdoing = innocence ! Duh!!!!

Is it more clear now ???

John A,

What hoot !!

"Artificial " State of Israel !!! Ah ha ha ha!!!!

If you believe this then several States of ME fall into this category as well- Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria- everyone of them a creation by their colonial rulers in conjunction with The League of Nations or the UN.

Should a State of Palestine ever be created- it would be equally as "artificial"- as you put it !

Your incessant rantings because Israel exists and is recognized and accept as a sovereign state by everyone other than Arab countries futile.

It won't change anything

Get over it !!! You lose !!

mirriam–"Anyway, there are plenty of Roman and Greek historians, geographers and philosophers who wrote about Jews in Judea and in exile. The most comprehensive and accurate Roman record of the time was written by Josephus who, having grown up in Judea, became a Roman citizen."

Plenty? Documenting on Jews in Judea or a handful of them in exile is one thing. Documenting on "Massive Jewish Exodus" from Judea in another..(Did you find any?)

"Josephus' credibility as a historian is questionable — his works are usually dismissed as Roman propaganda or as a personal or Jewish apologetic aimed at rehabilitating his reputation in history."
"He would have experienced the popular presentation of the Jews as a bellicose and xenophobic people". (Wikipedia)

Filipe–
bellicose: means ready to quarrel/fight
xenophobic: means fear of foreigners
Can you relate?

John A has a point, where is the historical documents on massive jewish exodus? There is, jewish resistance committing suicide, but non on massive exiles. Post reliable (non-Religious) links if you can find one.

mirriam–"Another undisputable piece of evidence is the Arch of Titus, showing the Jews and Holy vessels from the Temple being carried off to Rome."

Titus was a Roman. "The arch of Titus was built (in Rome) to commemorate the capture of Jerusalem over the Jewish Zealots". "His son, emperor Domitian built the Arch of Titus to honor his brother and to commemorate the victory in the Jewish War. "The Arch of Titus in Rome, shows treasures taken from the Temple in Jerusalem including the Menorah"..

http://www.aviewoncities.com/rome/archoftitus.htm

What does this have to do with, where is the proof of massive jewish exodus?..Procession of large amounts of gold and silver carried along the route, describing Titus's (a Roman) journey back to Rome does not mean a huge jewish migration took place. Btw,Titus brought his mistress Berenice (a Jewish client queen) back to Rome, (for play-procreation?-DNA!! distribution) Filipe seems to be flabbergasted over this DNA connecting us thing!

Again, I am sorry, but there no reference in Titus story about massive jewish exodus. Eat some more falafel..you'll get somewhere.

here's something to chew on while eating your stolen falafel..Diaspora the founding myth..

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2009/041109b.html

Filipe writes; Should a State of Palestine ever be created— it would be equally as “artificial”— as you put it !
--------------------------------
The point is Filipe the Palestinian have always lived in their region. Because their land was once conquered by Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Ottomans does not mean these people never existed before these empires. i.e India was always populated with Indians even when they were forced to live under a British flag and be labelled peoples of the British Empire.

Palestinians have always lived in Palestine. Today we use the word Palestinian in reference to this group of peoples. The word Palestine was also used in the Roman era. But even if you pretend the word Palestine is new, the people this word refers to are ancient and have always occupied this land. Hence they have a right to their own land and if they wish to call it Palistine, that is their choice.

Filipe & Miriam here is the sad irony: The descendants of those who built the First Temple of Jerusalem are Palestinian. It is the Palestinians who have evolved from the history of this land and not your white faced Jewish immigrants from Europe.

The direct descendants of ancient Judea (otherwise known as Palestinian) are today being bombed with F16s flown by white faced Zionist immigrants from Europe? Filipe & Miriam, you now persecute the decedents of the persecuted.

John A,

The land of the Palestinians is east of the River Jordan- or Arabia–take your pick !!!!

Have a nice day!

John A,

I never once stated that he word "Palestine" is new. You seem to be confused between the word " Palestine" and " Palestinian".

We've had this discussion before-

But yes, "Palestinian" is word first used to describe those who resided in British Mandate Palestine in the early 20th century. In fact, it was commonly used to describe all resident, regardless if they were Arabs, Christians or Jews. It wasn't until Arafat popularized the push for a national Identity for the Arabs of Palestine that the word "Palestinian" became commonly used to describe the local Arab population.

But that doesn't change the fact the "Palestinians" are Arabs-they came from Arabia-they have not always lived in the land commonly know as Palestine-- else they would not be Arabs !!!!

Yes–they have a right to their own land-- east of the River Jordan-or Arabia! They can have their pick!!!!

Too bad the rest of the world doesn't see the situation as you do !!!

Get over it -you'll be a much happier person if you just fall in line with the rest of the world community.

Hope,

There was no massive Jewish exile specifically to Rome, but Jews were exiled all over the Roman empire, to North Africa, Europe and Asia, often arriving in communities that already had a Jewish population made up of those whose ancesters had been exiled by Assyria, Babylon and Persia.

Most records of Jewish exile were written by Jews since events were changing their lives and of little interest to most other people.

The Jews have never claimed to be a pure race, but it's seems strange that you and John A have a problem with Jews migrating, voluntarily or forcefully, inter-marrying or other people converting to Judaism but have no issue with others converting to Christianity or Islam or inter-marrying and migrating.

Sand is just another in a line of isolated anti-Zionist Israelis who are unheard of locally but are brought into the lime-light because of their radical, baseless ideas.
His book deals with periods he has never previously researched and his hypotheses are disputed and rejected by experts in those periods.

Miriam you have totally lost the plot. Still you have no proof of a Jewish exile (obviously as it never happened). All of the nations conquered by Roman were turned into slaves and some were shipped off to help Romans build roads in different parts of their empire. This also happened to the Jews. But this is not an exile of an entire country.
Your history is a laughable lie.

The simple trick is to pretend that the blond Jews from Russia are the exiled descendants of the dark skinned people of the biblical era. Then and only then you can pretend the Jews are returning home after a 2000 year exile. The modern Jews are imposters as the ancient Jews never left, they converted to Islam. By the way in 2000 years your genetics will not radically change the colour of your hair and eyes. Mediterranean people have always had dark hair and eyes.

The blond Russian Jews who populate Israel today are not the descendants of the biblical period. In fact they persecute the descendants of the biblical period as the descendants are Palestinian.

Back to the Israeli human organ harvest – we shall wait and see what the New Jersey police investigation uncovers and perhaps one day the source of the organ harvest (carried out by Israelis in America) will be established.

My goodness miriam - Sorry to see your own scholars are making you insecure...!! Pick and choose, so much online :)

Shlomo Sand
"The Invention of the Jewish People"

http://inventionofthejewishpeople.com/2009/07/about/#more-1
http://www.versobooks.com/books/nopqrs/s-titles/sand_shlomo_invention_of_the_jewish_people.shtml
http://www.rense.com/general81/iuvnt.htm

Yuval, Israel Jacob
"More than that of any other nation, Jewish identity is based on the imaginary of a collective memory rather than on a common territory"...

http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/ckn/v012/12.1yuval.html

John A and Hope,

Sorry about your luck, but your continued whining and crying about the Israelis really isn't going to change the fact that Israel exists. They're not going to go away. Jerusalem is the capital. And Israel is free to admit or reject any and all individuals into their sovereign state as they so choose.

Get over it.

And by the way John- didn't you read the post from Hope????– She said the Rabbi from Brooklyn nabbed by the FBI is a Swede !!!!! Sure didn't look like a blond haired blue eyed Swede to me in the photos I saw !!!!!

Why don't whine and cry to your wonderful US government about the corrupt medical community in you have in the US!

HOPE

since you do not answer, you surely must agree with me, THANK YOU HOPE:

so Hope, according to you there is proof that there was “organ snatching”?

according to you, a Jew is not allowed to buy land anywhere, but only where you allow him to?

According to you, let the Jews be murdered by terrorists, because checkpoints are bad and if a few Jews get killed because there are no more checkpoints, you don’t really acre?

According to you, let Hmas in Gaza get more rockets, more explosives, more guns, because the siege has to be lifted, who cares if Shalit does not come home or rockets rain again on Israel?

According to you Jews slaughter Palestinians, like Erikat’s 500 Jenin dead which turned out to be a blatant lie, but who cares about the truth?

According to you Jews are not entitled to eat falafel, because it was stolen from the Arabs?

Name labeling gets you nowhere? It is you who slander,.lie, falsify history and label Jews as criminals.

Filipe your last post had no content. Have you conceded to the fact that your illogical arguments have no content? Is that why you can simply state that Israel exists today? Yes it exists and its existence is based on a lie.

History teaches us that false foundations will at some point crash down. That is the destiny of Israel. Get over it Filipe, the Zionist con was a moment of opportunism which has passed and wont be repeated. The only way for the Zionist criminal gangs is down hill from now on.

University Rector you have misquoted Hope on every sentence that you write. Is that because you can not answer your false Zionist claims with integrity?

In Schweden mehren sich die Verdachtsmomente, dass Donald Bostrom, Verfasser des „Organhandel“-Artikels im „Aftonbladet“, von „Hamas oder einer anderen arabischen Organisation“ bestochen wurde. Im Internet kursieren Hinweise von Kollegen, wonach Bostrom in jüngster Zeit über erhebliche Geldmittel verfüge. Einem Kollegen habe Bostrom vor der Veröffentlichung angekündigt, er habe „eine Idee, wie Israel empfindlich getroffen werden kann.“ Bostroms antisemitische und antiisraelische Haltung ist in Schweden seit Jahren bekannt. Zu seinem Freundeskreis gehören einflussreiche Mitglieder arabischer Organisationen in Schweden.

translation:

In Sweden the suspicions that the author of the "organ selling" article in "Aftonbladet" was bribed by Hamas or another Arab organization are getting more rampant. In the internet there are spread rumors of colleagues that Bostom suddenly ios in possession of lots of money. One colleague was told by Bostrom shortly before his publication that he "had an idea how to target Israel in an sensitive way" Bostrom's antisemitic and anti-Isareli believes are known in Sweden for years. His friends include members with influence of Arabic organizations in Sweden.

John A, here are your lies are exposed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Universitry Rector, Please read about the real events and organisation’s involved. I assume you know about the Israeli Shas political party which won 11 seats in the Knesset?

The mass arrests in the New Jersey corruption scandal last week were big news – in Israel. Images of prominent rabbis and Jewish businessmen being cuffed and arrested after morning prayers filled the front pages under headlines trumpeting the discovery of the “Jewish laundry” used to bribe prominent New Jersey officials allegedly using Israeli charities. In particular, Israeli commentators seized on the connection between several of those arrested and prominent figures in Shas, the ultra-orthodox Sephardi Torah Guardians Party, founded by the octogenarian Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, who remains its spiritual leader.

Among those arrested on July 23 were Rabbi Eliahu Ben Haim and Rabbi Edmund Nahum, who are reportedly close to Rabbi Ovadia Yosef and his son, Rabbi David Yosef. Ben Haim and Nahum were allegedly major fundraisers for Shas and Yosef family networks of educational institutions. According to a report on Israeli television, Rabbi David Yosef was also said to have been the target of Solomon Dwek, the FBI’s chief informant, who asked the rabbi to help him launder a check for $25,000. David Yosef reportedly declined.

Leaders of Shas, which won 11 seats in the Knesset and is the fourth largest member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s coalition government, told TIME the party has no connection to the scandal. Roei Lachmanovich, spokesman for Shas Party leader Eli Yishai, told TIME that fundraising by the American rabbis for Sephardi institutions in Israel did not mean they were connected to Shas. He said that Shas institutions – including the rabbinical schools, or yeshivas – received their budget directly from the Israeli government and denied that Shas had been involved in any money-laundering or illegal activity. Furthermore, he said that Rabbi David Yosef was not a member of Shas and did not represent the party. “Besides the fact that he is Rabbi Ovadia Yosef’s son, he has no formal connection to the Shas organization,” said Lachmanovich.

One of those arrested was a Brooklyn man, Levy Izhak Rosenbaum, who was charged with trading in human organs. In Jerusalem’s ultra-orthodox community this week, Rosenbaum, who claimed to be a real estate dealer, was described as a macher (fixer) who assisted renal patients in finding appropriate medical treatment in the United States. According to the official complaint, however, Rosenbaum planned to give an Israeli donor $10,000 and then charge the client who requested the kidney $160,000. The payment would be laundered through what Rosenbaum described first as a “congregation,” then as a charity. According to published reports, Rosenbaum ran the Brooklyn branch of Kav Lachayim, a charity for sick children that was once supported by convicted financier Bernie Madoff.

The Shas media reacted to the entire scandal with countercharges of anti-Semitism. Yitzhak Kakun, editor of the Shas newspaper Yom Le’Yom told the Jerusalem Post: “The FBI purposely attempted to arrest as many rabbis as possible at once in an attempt to humiliate them.” Meanwhile, Nissim Ze’ev, a Shas Knesset member, said, “The U.S. police are trying to make it seem as though there is some kind of Jewish mafia.”

This is not the first time, however, that the Shas party has been embroiled in a corruption controversy. Two Shas ministers have been convicted on corruption charges in recent years. Yossi Klein Halevi, a senior fellow at the Adelson Institute for Strategic Studies in Jerusalem, explains that some parts of the ultra-orthodox community tend to disregard secular law, despite a tenacious adherence to the minutest detail of Jewish religious ritual. Says Halevi: “You have a kind of borderless community that in its best expressions maintains international charity efforts that are second to none. But the dark side of this is a mentality that often too easily slides into rationalizations for acts that cannot be rationalized, with the idea that the end justifies the means. Here we are raising money for charitable institutions, and therefore we’re allowed to cut corners.”

Halevi adds: “There have been other examples in the past of drug-running happening under cover of certain religious institutions here. There have been too many examples of abuse in the past.”

Shlomo Sand?

Israel Bartal, dean of the humanities faculty of the Hebrew University, in a commentary published in Haaretz[9], writes that Sand's basic thesis and statements about Jewish history are "baseless". Bartal answers to "Sand's arguments (...) that no historian of the Jewish national movement has ever really believed that the origins of the Jews are ethnically and biologically "pure" [and that] Sand applies marginal positions to the entire body of Jewish historiography and, in doing so, denies the existence of the central positions in Jewish historical scholarship." He adds that "The kind of political intervention Sand is talking about, namely, a deliberate program designed to make Israelis forget the true biological origins of the Jews of Poland and Russia or a directive for the promotion of the story of the Jews' exile from their homeland is pure fantasy."[10]

Tom Segev wrote that Sand's book "is intended to promote the idea that Israel should be a 'state of all its citizens' – Jews, Arabs and others – in contrast to its declared identity as a 'Jewish and democratic' state" and that the book is generally "well-written" and includes "numerous facts and insights that many Israelis will be astonished to read for the first time".[8]

Anita Shapira wrote "Sand bases his arguments on the most esoteric and controversial interpretations, while seeking to undermine the credibility of important scholars by dismissing their conclusions without bringing any evidence to bear."[11]

For Ofri Ilani, "(...) most of [the] book does not deal with the invention of the Jewish people by modern Jewish nationalism, but rather with the question of where the Jews come from."[6]

Hillel Halkin has cited the book as an example of the fact that there apparently is "no book too foolish to go un-admired by someone."[12]

Oh dear the University Rector does seem more confused than usual. What subject would he like to discuss. Could it be the mythical history of Israel or the Israeli organ harvest. And can he supply any facts or can he only supply the opinions of Zionists?

University Rector Please supply comments based on fact.

John A,

Oh my-- But why didn't you provide the links to the atrocious news article and photos you speak of?? -– Images of prominent rabbis and Jewish businessmen being cuffed and arrested after morning prayers filled the front pages under headlines trumpeting the discovery of the “Jewish laundry” used to bribe prominent New Jersey officials allegedly using Israeli charities"

Or are we just supposed to take your word for it ??? BWAAAA!!!!

In addition-which US political party are these criminals associated with??? Since most of them are Jews- they must be tied to Obama's cast of clowns and corrupted criminal crooks !!!

But what about those in the medical community who are complicit??? What US political party are they associated with ?? The Dems or the Repubs-or both???

Looks to me like there are crooks everywhere !!!! Even in your good old USA ! Right up to the top dog-since this obviously can't happen without the knowledge of everyone from the top down-impossible for these people act independently-there certainly has to complicity all the way to the top !!!

Good old USA-World leader in the number of politicians serving time in penitentiaries.

Filipe please read the link below:

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1913109,00.html

yeah john, read the TIME article and tell us where exactly it says that any Israeli was involved

but you of course see and hear things nobody else can, oh great one!!!

HOPE

Alson Weir as a source? you must be kidding:

the following is from the Nortwestern Chronicle (The Northwestern Chronicle is an independent, non-profit journal of news and opinion at Northwestern University. Founded in the spring of 1992, the Northwestern Chronicle is one of the country's longest-running conservative college weeklies and a source of student opinion, renegade journalism, and honest reporting on daily life at Northwestern)

Weir delivers bias, bigotry in anti-Israel talk
Journalist's biased claims go unchallenged
Posted 11-15-2001, 11:07
by Richard Goldberg
Meet Alison Weir, self-proclaimed journalist, savior of the Palestinian people and anti-Semite extraordinaire. Around 100 people had the unfortunate pleasure of hearing Weir speak on the night of Nov. 11 in Harris Hall. But this was no ordinary lecture.

Weir brought shame to the journalist's trade that night as she regaled her sorrowful journey through "Palestine," witnessing the racist treatment and brutal occupation of the innocent, loving Palestinians by the Israel Defense Force. This high-tech presentation was accompanied by a slide show of photos Weir collected during her one month in Gaza and the West Bank-pictures of children on respirators, broken homes and caring families.

The speech went further than just calling for an end of Israeli occupation or cutting off foreign aid to Israel. (For the record, she did suggest both.) Weir began with a brief overview of Zionism from the late 19th century until the creation of the State of Israel. Her presentation was filled with lie after lie, distortion after distortion, and propaganda after propaganda.

Zionism, Weir claimed, was a movement founded by Jews who wanted to live in Palestine and forcibly remove the inhabitants of the land. False!

The true origin begins with a French journalist named Theodore Herzl. He had been covering the Dreyfus Affair, in which Alfred Dreyfus, a French military officer, was framed, tried and convicted of treason because he was Jewish. Herzl understood that anti-Semitism in the world would never dissipate and the Jewish people needed a homeland-a refuge for any Jew fleeing persecution and oppression.

Also, the Jewish National Fund provided the money which legally bought every piece of swamp land that the "evil Zionists" developed in Palestine.

What Weir refers to as the Arab Uprising of 1929, most legitimate historians call the Hebron Massacre of 1929. On a Sabbath day in August, 67 Jewish seminary students and families were murdered in cold blood while they learned their holy texts and recited the Sabbath prayers. If that is an uprising that "caused deaths on both sides," than the Jews and the Nazis worked together during the Holocaust in some grand conspiracy.

According to Weir, during World War II there was a secret "Zionist-Nazi" co-conspiracy to relocate the Jews of Europe to Palestine in an effort to flood the country with an enormous Jewish population. Words cannot describe such a dehumanizing, bigoted and ignorant statement.

The Jewish Agency tried its best to evacuate as many Jews from Nazi Germany in order to save them from Gestapo beatings, ghetto liquidations, death camp gas chambers and SS firing squads. Between 1933 and 1939, when Adolph Hitler closed the borders, 350,000 Jews were evacuated to the United States and Palestine. To even suggest such a conspiracy shows a complete disregard for the millions slaughtered by Hitler, as well as a clear anti-Semitic agenda. Perhaps it would interest Ms. Weir to know that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was very close friends with Hitler and visited him several times throughout the war.

Weir suddenly decided to cut short the history lesson "for lack of time" and skip ahead to the current Israeli barbarism in "Palestine." However, she neglected many important facts because of this shortcut. The audience deserved to learn that in 1947 the United Nations ratified a partition plan for Palestine-establishing a Jewish state, an Arab state and Jerusalem as an international city. She also forgot to mention that Israel accepted that plan, the Arabs did not and five Arab countries attacked Israel moments after David Ben-Gurion (who of course was one of the conspiracy masterminds, according to Weir) declared independence.

The other issue that Weir entirely skirted was how the Palestinian refugee problem came about. Could it be that when anti-Israel Arabs refused to live as citizens under an Israeli flag and returned to their respective homelands, the Arab countries barred them from entering and instead forced them into refugee camps?

Does she realize that the Palestinian refugee camps in the West Bank existed from 1949-1967, before Israel won the territory in battle during the Six Day War?

It's fascinating to note that the living conditions in East Jerusalem actually improved with Israeli rule-when the IDF entered the city in 1967 they found sewage in the streets and disease everywhere.

Apparently these facts do not enter into the non-biased journalism that Weir practices.

But even if none of that seems false or misleading, what Weir said next cannot be rationalized or excused. She claimed that in the Apartheid State of Israel today there are military checkpoints that sometimes deny Palestinians permission to pass. According to her "personal accounts," the Israeli soldiers have flashlights at night that point at you and motion you in different directions-these she referred to as "death points" because some Palestinians don't receive the right flashlight motion and are killed. The parallel that she is drawing is evil, blatantly false and a major affront to anyone who was victimized by the Holocaust.

In the death camps, the Nazi guards would motion people into two lines, one line of women, children and the elderly and the other line of strong, working-age men. The first line would go through one gate leading to the concentration camp and the other line would go through a second gate leading to extermination. IDF checkpoints that ensure that no terrorist can pass from the West Bank to Israel to mass-murder innocent civilians is in no way analogous to the atrocities of the Holocaust. Only a sick, perverted mind would make such a connection. A mind like Weir's.

It's not journalism to spend a month with Palestinian "victims" of Israeli brutality and not spend a month with the parents of the teenagers who were blown up at a Tel Aviv disco. It's not journalism to attend the funeral of a member of Islamic Jihad (of which she showed pictures and then referred to the black masks worn by the terrorists as ritualistic) and not grieve with the children of a 39-year-old mother ambushed and killed on a highway when coming home from work.

Medill sent out an e-mail on its listserv to all students encouraging them to attend the event because Weir was labeled a journalist. For such a highly esteemed school of journalism to encourage students to attend the lecture of a poor journalist and high-quality bigot calls into question the values and principles it instills in its students.

What's the matter with the Northwestern community these days? Pat Buchanan gets a candlelight vigil protest and a rabid anti-Semite like Alison Weir gets free publicity from the school.

John A,

You already posted that-–but you never answered or addressed or even acknowledged any of the questions I had???

Why not ???? Because the answers only incriminate the those in the US !

Why try to make this out to be something other than what it is??? New York Jews, corrupt NY and NJ politicians as well as a corrupt medical industry-doctors, lawyers hospitals and clinics in NY and NJ !!

So far there hasn't been a single person in Israel implicated in this particular issue-- yet you blame it on Israel because you hate Jews and anything to do with Israel.

Go down to the local Jewish deli and buy yourself a falafel!

Filipe–Are you happy now? A link has been provided...Bottom line, Jewish Crime is on the rise, and the world needs to be vigilant Have good weekend..and remember, I stand for pro-Semite...

Apparently even the US Congress realizes this entire "organ harvesting" issue is nothing more than blatant lies and fabrication by those with racial and bigoted motivations !!!!

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1112191.html

" U.S. Congressmen to EU: Condemn IDF organ harvesting article"

Members of the U.S. Congress on Friday urged European foreign ministers to denounce an article published in the Swedish daily Aftonbladet alleging that Israel Defense Forces soldiers kill Palestinians in order to harvest their organs.

"We at the U.S. Helsinki Commission are dedicated to upholding human rights, particularly freedom of the press," said U.S. Senator Ben Cardin, a Democrat from Maryland, who is chairman of the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe.

"But with freedom of the press comes responsibility. And when major press outlets fail to meet their responsibility, and instead raise the specter of racism or anti-Semitism, then public officials are duty bound to speak out and condemn such blatant falsehoods. I commend Sweden's Ambassador to Israel for fulfilling this duty."

*****************************************************************

It also appears as though the only people still promoting and propagandizing this issue are those who exhibit the same racial hatred and bigoted agendas !

Can you grown up and smell the roses Filipe...Just because few members of congress want to brush this under the carpet ASAP to avoid demonizing the Jewish state...that does NOT mean it did not take place..A lot of these congressmen are fundamental Christians. They have a purpose in life to fulfill!!..Honestly, did you expect them to say otherwise!.. We the People believe what we research and read. Congressmen opinions don't sway us one way or the other...you're funny.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/kultur/article5652583.ab
http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/new/Outrage_IDF_Accused_of_Harvesting_Palestinian_Organs.asp

Hope,

1) The posted link fails mentions the words "Israel" or "Israeli" even one single time !!!

2)The posted link is not even about the subject of the blog.

3) In order for it to be relevant-– it needs to be about the subject of the discussion.

4) From reading the details of the posted link- it appears that a more appropriate conclusion would be -– US crime is on the rise!!!

Stop by your local Jewish deli and grab a quick Jewish falafel or two !!!

HOPE

Alison Weir as a source???

hahahahahaha see above, which you chose to ignore, as you ignore all facts

andf AGAIN

where in theTime article does it say anything about any Isareli being involved?

WHERE HOPE?

Where John?

Hope,

As the articles you posted so plainly admit- " although there is no proof" !! Duh !!!!!

More baseless "accusations"-lacking any substance and totally void of facts-– typical propagandizing by bigoted people filled with racial hatred-nothing more !!!

Wake up and smell the roses Hope !

Hope,

Great link you posted there !!!! Thanks !!!!! Not only is the Swedish paper accused by another paper as being anti-Semitic, they're also accused of publishing false and baseless accusations-void of any proof.

As well the link shows a wonderful video of a Palestinian terrorist planting IED's then hiding among civilians waving a white flag !!!!

Go figure -–who would have even thought of it being possible !!!!!

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/new/Outrage_IDF_Accused_of_Harvesting_Palestinian_Organs.asp

Maybe you should actually read what you post before you post it. Otherwise things like this happens-– you end up defeating your own cause

On the first link, it was the photo I was interested in.

On the second link, just trying to see if you are paying attention. Good falafel!..See, the lord works in mysterious ways after all.

Hope,

It really is of no importance to me what you were interested in. The fact is you posted 2 links which completely debunk your own characterizations of the Palestinians. 1) Journalists are speaking out and openly criticizing the falsehoods and lies being reported in the the whole "organ snatching" nonsense. 2) Films of Palestinian terrorists hiding in groups of civilians waving white white flags hoping to go undetected.!!

If the words Gilad Shalit 19, were printed under the cut up, stitched up, chin to chest to abdomen photo, it would really be of important to you..yes??

Filipe, when a newly born country dehumanizes one race in order to elevate its own foreign imports, and treated as a second nature for all it matters..obviously a sick epidemic within that society is on the rise.

The Rabbi organ snatching is happening and these villains are making loads of illegal $$$ of innocent needy civilians around the world and Palestine. And what the Palestinians have been doing, (be it a white flag or pink flag...which one you prefer?) is a drop in the bucket compared to Israel's 60 years of Palestinian killing spree.

Hope

As usual, instead of facts, you provide your own unimportant opinion

However, the link you recently provided specifically confirms that the Palestinians are not from this area, they migrated from the Arab peninsula.

So you yourself provided the proof for what we have been saying all along: the Palestinians do not belong here, they migrated

Thank you very much for helping us prove that you are wrong and were wrong all along!!!!!!!!!

Hope,

Thanks for your opinion ! But as is always said-everybody has one.

It's just too bad for you that the Israelis actually accepted the worlds' offer to them for an internationally recognized state.

it's also too bad for your Arab immigrants that they chose not to accept what was offered to them-now you, your buddy John A and all those like you feel the need to whine and cry on a daily basis because of 60 years of Arab stupidity.

Get over it-the reason the Arabs are in the situation they are is by self choice!

You need to get over the fact that they are simply not welcome in the State of Israel. Just exactly like the fact that the Israelis are not welcome in Saudi Arabia !! No difference whatsoever!

But go ahead- let's hear your next Boo hoo hoo!

Rector who did the Arabs conquer when they invaded Palestine? They did not conquer Jews, so where did the Jews come from?

Palestinians are now mixed with the many conquerors who have invaded their land. Your Jewish mates with European features certainly have no biological or historical link to Palestine (or its new name Israel)

If I convert to Judaism today, I could become a citizen of Israel. But a Palestinian whose family has been born in that region for hundreds of years can’t claim Palestinian citizenship. Palestinians had their land high jacked by European Jewish immigrants in 1947. The immigrants renamed the territory Israel.

University Rector you think you are clever, so tell me what this land was called before 1947. What was it called in 1847 or 1747 or 1647 or 1247 or 800AD etc etc. Here is a clue: It was not called Israel and less than 3% of its population practised Judaism.

John

I seriously suggest you staudy history before you spew Nasralla's hate messages

"Your Jewish mates with European features "

European features??? You make me laugh. Go for a walk in Bnei Ayish, Yavne, Gealya, Gesher Haziv, Manara, Rosh Pina, Beer Sheva and count the Jews with European features

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

John A,

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!

Are you so stupid to not know where the Jews come form ???

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!

Who cares what the land was called after the Arab invaders came in the 7th century ??? No One !!! And everyone-except maybe you realizes that. It was called the same thing after the Romans came.

Even you know it the Romans who enslaved and expelled the Jews and renamed the Land of Judea to Palestine!! It's one more name given to a piece of land that had been called several different names over the course of history.

The question is -Who Cares?

But you've read plenty of posted links that confirms the European Jews are actually descendants of Jews from the middle east. This is a proven fact. And I'm not talking about those who consider themselves Jewish due to conversion to Judaism-so don't get that all twisted around in your simple little mind.

It's about time you accept the fact that your favorite people, the Palestinians, had their land hijacked from them in 1948 by the Jordanians !!! Jordan is the one who enslaved the Palestinians, put them in refugee camps- along with the Egyptians.

Israel played no part in that. So if the Palestinians and you have someone to whine and cry about it should be your neighbors in Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, and Syria!

The Palestinian people of Israel live in a free democracy and are equal citizens as the Jews.

Sorry about your luck, but it is like the Obama told you so plainly in Cairo–"Israel is not going anywhere" !!

some poster goes ballistic writing

"John A August 24th, 2009 812 GMT
IF ISRAEL HAS NOTHING TO HIDE WHY DOES IT TRY TO SILENCE THE PRESS AND PREVENT JOURNALISTS FROM ENTERING GAZA???"

the journalists can always enter thru Egypt, genius

ever think it through?

John A,

Of course the Jews who were living in the Holyland at the time of the Arab invasion were conquered!

They may not have been ruling the land at the time since it had been conquered several times in 700 years, and then several times after. But there were still Jews living there.

Amongst Jews, in their speech and in their writings (which you mistakenly believe are fiction anyway), the land has always been refered to as the Land of Israel, the only name that has continuously been used to refer to the area.

Palestinians cannot claim Palestinian citizenship since there is no Palestinian state and never has been. When there is a state they will enjoy that privilege.

Filipe and University Rector ignore the question, so I repeat: What was Palistine called in 1847 or 1747 or 1647 or 1247 or 800AD etc etc. Here is a clue: It was not called Israel and less than 3% of its population practised Judaism.

Filipe if you are truly so stupid that you don’t know where European Jews come from then please read and learn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars

The Khazars were a semi-nomadic Turkic people who dominated the Pontic steppe and the North Caucasus from the 7th to the 10th century CE. The name 'Khazar'[1] seems to be tied to a Turkic verb form meaning "wandering".[2]

In the 7th century CE, the Khazars founded an independent Khaganate in the Northern Caucasus along the Caspian Sea. Although the Khazars were initially Tengri shamanists, many converted to the Abrahamic faiths through interaction with the Byzantine Empire & successive Islamic caliphates; during the eighth or ninth century, the Khaganate adopted Judaism as state religion. At their height, the Khazars and their tributaries controlled much of what is today southern Russia, western Kazakhstan, eastern Ukraine, Azerbaijan, large portions of the Northern Caucasus ( Circassia, Dagestan, Chechnya), parts of Georgia and the Crimea.

Between 965 and 969, their sovereignty was broken by Sviatoslav I of Kiev, and they became a subject people of Kievan Rus'. Gradually displaced by the Rus, the Kipchaks, and later the conquering Mongol Golden Horde, the Khazars largely disappeared as a culturally distinct people.

The origins of the Khazars are unclear. Following their conversion to Judaism, the Khazars themselves traced their origins to Kozar, a son of Togarmah. Togarmah is mentioned in Genesis in the Bible as a grandson of Japheth.

Some scholars in the former USSR considered the Khazars to be an indigenous people of the North Caucasus mostly Nakh peoples. Argument is, that name 'khazar' from chechen language translates 'beautiful valley'. Other scholars, such as D.M. Dunlop and P.B. Golden, considered the Khazars to be connected with a Uyghur or Tiele confederation tribe called He'san in Chinese sources from the 7th-century (Suishu, 84). However, the Khazar language appears to have been an Oghuric tongue, similar to that spoken by the early Bulgars and corresponding to the modern day Chuvash dialects.[3] Therefore, a Hunnish origin has also been postulated. Since the Turkic peoples were never ethnically homogeneous, these ideas need not be deemed mutually exclusive. It is likely that the Khazar nation was made up of tribes from various ethnic backgrounds, as steppe nations traditionally absorbed those they conquered. Their name is accordingly derived from Turkic *qaz-, meaning "to wander, flee."
Armenian chronicles contain references to the Khazars as early as the late second century. These are generally regarded as anachronisms, and most scholars believe that they actually refer to Sarmatians or Scythians. Priscus relates that one of the nations in the Hunnish confederacy was called Akatziroi. Their king was named Karadach or Karidachus. Some, going on the similarity between Akatziroi and "Ak-Khazar" (see below), have speculated that the Akatziroi were early proto-Khazars.

Dmitri Vasilyev of Astrakhan State University recently hypothesized[citation needed] that the Khazars moved in to the Pontic steppe region only in the late 500s, and originally lived in Transoxiana. According to Vasilyev, Khazar populations remained behind in Transoxiana under Pecheneg and Oghuz suzerainty, possibly remaining in contact with the main body of their people.
Dr Simon Kraiz, an expert on Eastern European Jewry at University of Haifa, in September 2008, in connection with Vasilyev's findings in Samosdelka pointed out that no Khazar writings had been found: "We know a lot about them, and yet we know almost nothing: Jews wrote about them, and so did Russians, Georgians, and Armenians, to name a few. But from the Khazars themselves we have nearly nothing."[4]

John A,

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!!

Who cares what the land was called between 800AD and 1847 ???

No one but you seems to care !!! Maybe you should find someone who does!!

Israel was called several things before the Romans named it Palestine !!!! Israel, Judea, Judah, Canaan, to mention a few !!!! All were names for the piece of land currently called Israel--- eons before The Romans invented the word Palestine !!!!!

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!

And who in the world ever told you that there were never any people of Europe who converted to Judaism??? Did you just dream that up ?????

None of that nonsense you rant and rave about disputes the DNA evidence that there are Jews who left Judea and migrated to Europe !!!

John A

did you bother to read above?

No?

here it is again:

September 11th, 2009 931 GMT

Hope

As usual, instead of facts, you provide your own unimportant opinion

However, the link you recently provided specifically confirms that the Palestinians are not from this area, they migrated from the Arab peninsula.

So you yourself provided the proof for what we have been saying all along: the Palestinians do not belong here, they migrated

Thank you very much for helping us prove that you are wrong and were wrong

So John, the Pals migrated from a different place, when the Jews were there for centuries

should I explain it again?

No?

Or maybe yes?????

John A,

Are you so stupid to think that the origins of the Jewish faith is rooted in Europe and Russia???? You're showing you ignorance of the subject more and more as time goes on!!

Who do you think introduced Judaism to those of Russia and Europe who converted ??? Could it possibly have been the Israelites who migrated there from Israel ??? Duh!!!!

Or do you simply think that the Khazar and those of Russia and Europe who converted invented Judaism all on their own through some kind of divine osmosis??

Think about it John A !!!! Just the fact that Judaism was even introduced to the Europeans and the Russian people bears witness to the fact there were Israelites who migrated there from Israel !!!!!

Even as your posting above so specifically points out --"no Khazar writings had been found: “We know a lot about them, and yet we know almost nothing: Jews wrote about them".

How much more proof do you need to post to convince yourself that there were Jews who migrated to Russia and Europe???

No matter how hard you try-you'll never be able to rewrite history in an attempt to convince a single person that the Israelites were not from Israel and that Judaism originated somewhere other than the Land of Israel!!

Sorry-but you loose again !!! Talk it over with your brother Homer before you respond.

Filipe–"But you’ve read plenty of posted links that confirms the European Jews are actually descendants of Jews from the middle east. This is a proven fact."

Really? Actually I don't think so. The majority of European/Russian immigrant Jews in Israel do not have a genetic signature. These people are of mixed races..and do not posses a genetic marker at a higher frequency. So bottom line, European jews are NOT Semitic in origin, they would have no historical claim to Israel, nor would they be the subject of God's Biblical promise.

Perpetuating ancient mythology at the expense of Palestinian blood (the ones and only Semitic natives of Palestine) has been the crime of our century!. And yes, there has been a hypothesis of the few (shared) Y- Chromosome satisfying desperate insecure Jews (seeking a common ancestor in the ME). So what!..that same DNA also inclusively includes the North African people, & Middle Eastern descendants..does that mean for example the Libyans of North Africa belong in Israel?..Anyway the whole concept behind DNA is that we ALL share genetic component which makes us belong to the Human Race vs. Apes. Well, for the few obvious exceptions.

Dearest Hope

As usual, instead of facts, you provide your own unimportant opinion

However, the link you recently provided specifically confirms that the Palestinians are not from this area, they migrated from the Arab peninsula.

So you yourself provided the proof for what we have been saying all along: the Palestinians do not belong here, they migrated

Thank you very much for helping us prove that you are wrong and were wrong

should I explain it again?

No?

Or maybe yes?????

Hope,

Sorry for your confusion. But you seem to be missing the point-once again. No one disputes that there are people who converted to Judaism. But you just continue to ignore the fact that there are in fact Jews in Europe whose ancestors migrated from the land of Israel. There is DNA evidence of this. What is the percentage of each??? You tell me, since you seem to be so concerned about it! I don´t really care because it is of no importance. What is important is the fact that those who are converts did so as result of the presence of Jews from the Land of Israel. This in itself is proof of the midddle eastern Jewish origins within the European population.

As far as the Arabs of Palestine are concenrned, your posting above confirms their origins in the Arabian peninsula~~~~ go figure !!! They should have been happy when they were offered the opportunity to live in a sovereign state in Palestine. But now, they want to blame their ignorance and patheticaly stupid incompetance on everyone else in the world, Duh!!! No one feels sorry for them~~~let them make their home in the land of their origins~~~the Arabian Peninsula~~~or maybe one of their Arab neighbors will accept them ~~~~ yea ~~right !! Fat chance!

It makes no difference whether you want to accept DNA evidence or not. Many Jews who passed through Europe are of semitic origin.

The Land of Israel, being situated at the cross-roads of Africa, Asia and Europe is certain to have produced a population with varied genetic/ethnic/racial characteristics. The same can be said for the populations of Syria and Lebanon.

Migration, largely due to expulsion, will have further diluted the original Jewish gene pool, which was most probably varied in the first place.

Conversion to Judaism cannot deny the right of Jews to their land. After all, Muslims are not barred from entering Mecca even if they are newly converted.

The issue is the connection of Jews to the Land of Israel, a fact that cannot be denied by those who demonize Jews and deligitimize the State of Israel in order to promote the ideology of the Arab and Palestinian leadership who will invent any story to bring about the annihilation of Israel and, even better, the Jews, whose connection to the land they know is true.

Miriam as always you miss the point long with your buddies Filipe and University Rector. Nobody denies a handful of people practiced Judaism in Palestine over 2000 years ago. If you want to go back far enough we all evolve from the same tribes and migrated from Africa. The ancient past plays no practical relevance to todays problems. Today Palestinians who have been born in Palestine for generation have had their land high jacked and brutalized by European Jewish immigrants. Filipas answer to this problem is "too bad on the Palestinians". The Arabic answer will be too bad on the merciless Jewish high jackers. Israels fait has already been sealed by its own power hungry and murderous policies. What goes around will come around and nobody will come to your rescue again as they did in 1945.

So now that you're running out of deck cards, attempting to hide behind the usual game of the sacrificed poor lamb is your best shot? No one is demonizing, and no one is delegitimizing and no one is annihilating except for the Israel..History shows, you trumpeted in un-announced..Invaded..Annihilated the pure-Semitic natives..Caged the leftovers..Dehumanized..Erected segregation walls..Chopped their olive trees...P- $$ – - in their fields in order to build illegal settlements, and you are whimpering about what?!?! Give me a break...good to know no one is following this except for the three of you. Or, is it two?

HOPE

your lack of reply indicates that you agree with every single word I post.

Thank you for your confidence.

Hope, admit your link proves the Palestinians migrated from somewhere else

Hope,

Is that more material for the hopeless comedy hour ???

Your ranting and raving kind of sounds like the scenario echoed by the Native Americans when speaking of their plight because of the white European settlers!!!! Your ancestors, Hope ???

John A,

Is that a threat?

Sounds like you are inciting,wishing for and probably instigating a genocide.

You still deny anti-semitism/zionism?

Hope,

Denying Jewish history and religion and attempts to portray Jews as evil is demonization.

Denying Israel the right to exist is delegitimization.

The commonly heard calls from Muslim leaders for the killing of Jews and the removal of Israel is incitement to annihilation.

HOPE
"So now that you’re running out of deck cards, attempting to hide behind the usual game of the sacrificed poor lamb is your best shot? No one is demonizing, and no one is delegitimizing and no one is annihilating except for the Israel..History shows, you trumpeted in un-announced..Invaded..Annihilated the pure-Semitic natives..Caged the leftovers..Dehumanized..Erected segregation walls..Chopped their olive trees…P- $$ – – in their fields in order to build illegal settlements, and you are whimpering about what?!?! Give me a break…good to know no one is following this except for the three of you. Or, is it two?"
=================================================

So much resentment, so much hate and so many lies in such a short paragraph.

Go and submit it to Guiness book of records, this can suerely not be beaten by anyone!!

Thanks for admitting that the Palestinians do not belong to the area, they migrated.

Thanks again Hope for proving our point!!